Talk:Biped Formulas
Is it possible to remove the "Formula:" prefix? Majha 18:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Hi Majha - yes, it is, would take some effort though because of the number of formulas. I think previously the title of the item (i.e. Formula: Begginner Cloth Boots) has been done that way so it exactly looks like what the game refers to it as. There is no requirement for it in the Wiki as we use category:formula to track those. ObyDragon - any preferences? If we do change it, we would ideally need to rename every formula that has been entered - about 100 so far I think. StalePopcorn 21:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I would be happy to help out if they need to be adjusted. Majha 21:51, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I think the "Formula" could be taken out so long as the information about crafting and formulas were maintained on the resulting page. The way I saw it, you could have a whole page devoted to the crafting information (see Formula: Strength Chest Scale, for example), and a whole page devoted to the actual information about the item (think Item: Strength Chest Scale, or maybe Armor: Strength Chest Scale; it'd have information about the scale itself). Combining these two pages would result in a single monstrous page, and I personally think they'd be better split up. One thing that I think MUST go is the whole "Beginner" "Journeyman" and "Expert" (and sometimes "Master") concept that are on some formulas; namely, this Biped Formulas page since I took that out of all the dragon formulas I've done. It makes NO SENSE to repeat the same information three times across the Beginner, Journeyman, and Expert versions of a formula for the t1 item, for example. I'm also doing this kind of combining with the Abilities and Techniques; I don't think it makes any sense to have a separate page for Dragon Mining I and Dragon Mining II. They do the same thing! :) Anyways, just my 2c. Favoran 22:12, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I put both item info and crafting together on one page. For example: Flaxen Cargo Belt Majha 22:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC) If you want to go with that style, then okay; however, I think that there is a LOT of information missing from the page you linked that can be found on the scale page I linked. This is a Wiki, after all; it should have tons of information on it. Who knows when someone might want to know something? :D Consider the length of the scale page. It could easily become twice as long if you really went into detail about the actual item itself. Since I notice your link only talks about one tier of item. That's another thing. Why separate them by tier like that? It makes far more sense, to me, to have them grouped together on one page if they're the same item. Favoran 22:51, 3 September 2008 (UTC) It's nothing final. Just playing around with ideas. I like how HCC presents information, so trying to come up with a wiki adaption of it. As it is right now, it's more like Gamersinfo with individual pages for each. Majha 23:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC) I've used both as references, myself. ;) Favoran 23:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Here's my new layout (more HCC-like): Cargo Belt Majha 23:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Hm... I could live with that. ;) My only request would be to expand the resource requirement tables so you can see how often you can become more efficient at crafting different items. Also, don't forget to link the techs. Again, look at Formula: Strength Chest Scale as an example of what I'm talking about with both of these two points. Speaking of techs, are the dyes really necessary? Can't all armors be tech'd with all armor dyes? One final point, I promise. I think that having a global description is fine, but some items refer to their tier in the description. "Made from processed Glowing Essence" or something like that. How would this be dealt with using this method? Otherwise, I think this could work out. Maybe some other slight tweaks, but hey. :) Favoran 00:05, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Yea, I didn't link techs yet as I am not sure on the breakdown for them. If by Category (Craft, Adventure, etc.) or by Modifier (Alchemy, Bow, etc.). The page is pretty long already, so doing a breakdown for every resource/skill isn't very efficient, nor does it do as good of a job as HCC does. As for the descriptions, cargo gear does not have separate descriptions for each tier, so it would be redundant. And for something that does, usually something like (bronze, iron, steel, cobalt, mithril) would suffice. Majha 00:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Again, look at how I have the techs set up (I think I got there first so I have dibs on the method. :D). It would simply be how they appear in the game. Defense: Spirit Resistance or Crafting: Essence Harvesting or things like that. Unless someone has a better idea for how they should be listed? Keep in mind that removing the category prefix from, say, Essence Harvesting would be horribly confusing. There's an ability, skill, and technique with the same name. How will they be told apart if they go by the same name? ;) I know the pages are long already, which is one reason I suggested having it in two pages in the first place. However, you make a good point about using HCC to figure out efficiency. That'd just mean we'd have to put a link to that site somewhere on here, though, for players interested in knowing their efficiency who don't know about HCC. Favoran 03:15, 4 September 2008 (UTC) I'll just link it as Essence Harvesting under the list headers I made then. And if we make a page that contains all the colors, I'll only have to link that page and not each color. Unfortunately, not all craft techs apply to cargo. =( Majha 03:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Actually, I am just gonna go back to splitting them up into each tier piece having a page. Gonna pull layout ideas from the other wikia I use on here for FFXI. Latest layout I am trying: Flaxen Cargo Boots Majha 03:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Holy smokes, you two have practically written an essay on this lol The only info I would add is that when using Semantic Wiki to mark it up, you can practically mark up any piece of text as a property that can be semantically searched on later. So the same page could have properties for all tiers, as well as what bonuses are applied, experience gained for making it, etc. This means that you don't have to rely on Categories to get it to appear in a list later on, which is much more flexible. So Fav - for your Category question, you could remove the category prefix but add Semantic properties to the page that could still bring back results. I've just marked up the Named Creatures page to show how you can access information using properties and categories. Wouldn't be hard to do the same thing for formulae as well. As long as the pages don't get "huge" I don't think it is an issue which way to structure the information. StalePopcorn 05:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Okay, so, Majha said this: "I'll just link it as Essence Harvesting under the list headers I made then. And if we make a page that contains all the colors, I'll only have to link that page and not each color. Unfortunately, not all craft techs apply to cargo. =( Majha 03:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC) " Um... so? Just put down the techs that apply. That's not really much of an issue; in fact, that's kind of the point of what we should be trying to achieve by putting down techs that can be used by whichever kinds of formulas. As for this new system you're talking about Popcorn, I really don't quite understand how it works... It sounds nifty, I guess, but how does it stop us from needing to categorize pages? What I think we really need is a way to link to a specific part of a page. I'm assuming this exists already, cause that'd be a terrible idea for them to have not included support for this by default. But if we had something to do this, then it wouldn't be a problem to link every result for "Essence Harvesting" on one page, and then if you were going to link to the ability you could link to the specific part of the page. I kind of took a more combined approach with the Dragon Scales page. I think it turned out pretty well. But I think it'd be helpful to be able to look at a particular part of the page; for example, link directly to the "Crafting Info" subheading. Favoran 12:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Fav - it doesn't stop the need for adding categories to pages, but it does reduce the number of categories you need to use and maintain. For example, lets say we wanted to create scale formula page lists that showed all formulas of craft level 21 (i.e. Tier 2). You could add categories to the page "Formula, Tier 2" but you would have to manually keep the urls lists up to date for the pages, as you can only create a list based on one category. Example: with the Semantic searching that is now enabled, you create a category "Formula", and add a *property* to the page saying "level=21" and then your list is like a SQL statement i.e. "show me all pages with category formula and level between 21 and 39". Basically means you can create a list with virtually any combination of properties and not have to keep it up to date - makes providing links much easier. This page is a good example: http://istaria.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Formulas/. The pages needs to be manually updated for each list. With the Semantic wiki extensions, you could replace this with 4 lines of Semantic markup to generate the same result, and it would stay up-to-date automatically. I'm still working on it sorry, its all new to me :| Looks very promising, and I've been making some progress on lists; as an example check http://istaria.wikia.com/wiki/Quests/. StalePopcorn 14:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Fav - for linking to parts of a page, use the format PageName#Title. That seems to work in the test I did on the Sandbox page. StalePopcorn 14:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Ah... well, then, that's good to know. Using this new dynamic whatchamacallit system, how would formulas be sorted? I'd imagine they'd need a tag for the required skill, and a tag for the required experience... but that last one would actually have 5 values, one per tier, since you'd have a section for each tier of craftable item within a formula. Let's see. Then you'd want certain categories depending on what kind of item it produces (resource, armor, weapon, spell...). For equipable items, you'd want the skill required to equip, the races that can equip, and the amount of skill (per tier) to equip. "Current" and "Active" school requirements don't really matter; that can be addressed on the page itself. There's more ways to sort these. Wow, this could be quite a project. XD Favoran 23:31, 4 September 2008 (UTC)